TMH,
I haven't had a chance to chat with Darrwin yet, though I did speak with the OPP since they'd most likely be the ones you'd run into out on the trails. Besides, I don't think the MNR can enforce motor vehicle acts (though I could be wrong). In any case the OPP officers that I spoke to did not have an immediate answer to the question.
The most recent version of the
Motorized Snow Vehicles Act is very explicit in terms of the permit exception for licensed anglers to use OFSC trails running through crown land (within limits as stipulated in the act). The grey area is whether an ATV is actually considered to be a "motorized snow vehicle"? If it is, then everything is legal. If it's not or it's still undefined then there's the possibility of a fine, which the courts would obviously have to make a decision to set precedence for any future cases.
Question on ATV
Last edited by Todd B. on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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smokercraft
- Participant
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:46 am
- Location: Ottawa
Well, speaking from personal experience, if the trail is through crown/public land and you need to take it to get to your destination then there is nothing they can do. I fish small trout lakes on crown land near our hunt camp and we have been stopped by the trail wardens for driving on the trails with our ATV's. The only way into these lakes is to travel the groomed trail for a couple of km's before we turn off. Basically, after argument with both trail wardens and MNR, we were told that if you need to drive the trail to get to your lake and there is no other way then they cannot stop you. Provided you have a fishing license and gear with you. No trail warden will stop me from going fishing just because they decided that the trail they took over now was there's and only there's (if its on crown land) Private land I think would be a different story because it is the landowner giving consent for ofsc members only.
YES Steve your right....TroutnMuskieHunter wrote:Jamsers...LOL....if you go back to the 1st page, question by icemanstan was:Jamsers wrote:Ummm,
Steve. Never did Todd nor I say you couldn't. In fact read my post after I called the OFSC. Never can they tell you at any time of year you can't use the public or crown lands. I never said you couldn't.
The debate has never been about this. Its been about using private land.
In your case you are correct and I never argued that. All I am saying is be 100% sure you are indeed on Crown/Public land.
Where in Stan's question does he refer to using an ATV on private land??? It was a generic question which you replied to as follows:Icemanstan wrote:Law of riding on a Skidoo trials
Can anyone ride a sikdoo trial with a ATV
I was told yes as long as you have in your procession an ice-finhing rod on your ATV............ this is the first i hear of.
The fellow live in Hurst Ontario
This would open-up many lake to me.
I will be calling the MNR Monday to find out I just wanted to see if anyone knew of this.
Thanks
Stan
Your reply in bold is to the point and in your own words "bottom line" .....it makes no reference to Crown/public land or private property. So it is deceiving and therefore started this great discussion!!......Jamsers wrote:No ATV's are allowed on OSFC trails in Ontario.....PERIOD.
Your on it with an ATV you get fined. Bottom line.
I'd find another area to fish personally. A few fish isn't worth the fine.
I'm glad that it's now clear, as to what ATV owner's can do as far as using OFSC trails on CROWN LAND or PUBLIC LAND to get to their fav trout lakes in the winter
He asked about sled trail. He did not clarify whether it was OFSC or Crown/Public....
But you know what!? Municipalities give portions and sections over to the OFSC to regulate in the winter...so that section of "public" land becomes "private" from Nov 15-Apr 1 approx.
So when I answered, I answered to help out a fellow F-H member so that he wouldn't get fined and would benefit from someone who has knowledge in the area of sledding...(Did I mention I own 3 and ride ALOT???)
Unfortunatley when writing on-line you can't always be so clear and I'll read something different from you, as someone will read different from me.
Bottom line is you are correct. Crown/Public land can be used to access hunting/fishing areas so long as:
1) You have your gear on you
2) You have the requisite licenses permits (outdoor card, tags, PAL etc)
But some stretches of "Public" land are handed over to the OFSC by the Ministry of Transportation and by certain municipalities.
All I meant was people need to be careful and be 100% sure they are indeed on a trail considered "Public".
I really don't see why we are having such a HUGE debate?
The OPP, OFSC, MNR and MOT all have their own policies in this regard and they do not always match...same with any level of government.
I know this all too well being a civil servant and have worked in policy the last 2+ years!
But people are free to do as they please. If you'd like to take chances and risk fines/charges be my guest.
I'm about ready to quit F-H because whenever you do your best to be helpful PEOPLE still insist on crapping on you here!
Wow
This topic has created a bit of a response out here.
I am still new to this site but i have a bit of onformation regarding this subject and i thought i would share it without trying to take sides.
I think we have to seperate the parts of an OFSC trail that travel across private and crown land.
Crown land
The MNR has free use policy that essentialy allows everyone to use the land.
The OFSC has permision from the MNR to use these trails and roads on crown land.
The Motorizeds Snow Vehicles Act (MSVA)regulates the use of a snowmobile. as defined earlier (in other postings) the primary purpose of a vehicle defined under this act is for travelling on snow. (an argo, Atv, dune buggy 6 wheeler are classes of off-road vehicles as defined by the off-road vehicles act (see the regs made under the legislation) therefore they are not part of the MSVA nor does that legislation apply to them.
So on crown land a person could use the above mentioned vehicles or even a truck.
Private property:
When an OFSC trail crossess private property you are not permitted to operate anything on that trail unless you are the holder of a permit ie: OFSC trail permit (permits you to operate a snowmobile on the trail)or have the expressed permision of the a person deemed to be the occupier of the land. If you are on the trail on private property without a permit and no permision that you are deemed to be tresspassing.
I think the important distinction has to be the private vs crown land. on private you can restrict activities but on crown you may not.
Hope i didnt cause the subject to get clouded and offered some clarity.
Buckshot
This topic has created a bit of a response out here.
I am still new to this site but i have a bit of onformation regarding this subject and i thought i would share it without trying to take sides.
I think we have to seperate the parts of an OFSC trail that travel across private and crown land.
Crown land
The MNR has free use policy that essentialy allows everyone to use the land.
The OFSC has permision from the MNR to use these trails and roads on crown land.
The Motorizeds Snow Vehicles Act (MSVA)regulates the use of a snowmobile. as defined earlier (in other postings) the primary purpose of a vehicle defined under this act is for travelling on snow. (an argo, Atv, dune buggy 6 wheeler are classes of off-road vehicles as defined by the off-road vehicles act (see the regs made under the legislation) therefore they are not part of the MSVA nor does that legislation apply to them.
So on crown land a person could use the above mentioned vehicles or even a truck.
Private property:
When an OFSC trail crossess private property you are not permitted to operate anything on that trail unless you are the holder of a permit ie: OFSC trail permit (permits you to operate a snowmobile on the trail)or have the expressed permision of the a person deemed to be the occupier of the land. If you are on the trail on private property without a permit and no permision that you are deemed to be tresspassing.
I think the important distinction has to be the private vs crown land. on private you can restrict activities but on crown you may not.
Hope i didnt cause the subject to get clouded and offered some clarity.
Buckshot
Buckshot,
Just curious, that the way the MSVA is written, trail permits are required for OFSC managed/posted trails on crown land. (see quote). It does go on to state the permit exceptions for fishermen, etc, but as you pointed out ATVs, etc are not considered motorized snow machines.
[quote]1. (1) For the purpose of section 2.1 of the Act and this Regulation,
“prescribed trail†means a trail or part of a trail on which a trail permit is required by section 2.1 of the Act and that is
operated or maintained by or on behalf of the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs, and includes such a trail or part of
a trail that is on Crown land or other public land, but excludes any Crown land or other public land where the operation of
motorized snow vehicles is prohibited by law. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 1 (1).[/qoute]
In a way it's analogous to the road permits around Ompah. Even though you're within your rights to (day) fish a stocked lake up there without a road permit, if you're caught you'll find yourself having to go to court to fight the ticket.
Just curious, that the way the MSVA is written, trail permits are required for OFSC managed/posted trails on crown land. (see quote). It does go on to state the permit exceptions for fishermen, etc, but as you pointed out ATVs, etc are not considered motorized snow machines.
[quote]1. (1) For the purpose of section 2.1 of the Act and this Regulation,
“prescribed trail†means a trail or part of a trail on which a trail permit is required by section 2.1 of the Act and that is
operated or maintained by or on behalf of the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs, and includes such a trail or part of
a trail that is on Crown land or other public land, but excludes any Crown land or other public land where the operation of
motorized snow vehicles is prohibited by law. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 1 (1).[/qoute]
In a way it's analogous to the road permits around Ompah. Even though you're within your rights to (day) fish a stocked lake up there without a road permit, if you're caught you'll find yourself having to go to court to fight the ticket.
I have relatives in the Calabogie are that frequent the OMPAH area and my understanding is the trails that you are talking about are considered Township Property the maintenance has been turned over to the township and therefore they are permitted regulate the activity on those trails.
I believe that it is some what of a unique situation, as with anything under the tresspass to property act it will have to be properly posted and in talking with relatives i believe the signs at the start of trail do provide somewhat of an explanation. (But i have not been there i am speaking from third party info). best be is to call the MNR office that looks after that jusidiction, i believe it is part of the Bancroft office.
Buskshot
I believe that it is some what of a unique situation, as with anything under the tresspass to property act it will have to be properly posted and in talking with relatives i believe the signs at the start of trail do provide somewhat of an explanation. (But i have not been there i am speaking from third party info). best be is to call the MNR office that looks after that jusidiction, i believe it is part of the Bancroft office.
Buskshot
